Have you ever experienced “The Ick”? It’s a horribly awkward feeling–but what is it really? Fear of intimacy? Healthy intuition? This episode will teach you how to tell the difference–and what to do next.

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Listen For

• 00:00 Rethinking The Ick: The Secret Saboteur Of Healthy Love
• 04:10 How Shame And Boundaries Trigger The Wave Of Distancing
• 08:44 Red Flags Vs. Speed Bumps: Decoding Real Mismatches In Dating
• 13:30 How To Articulate Needs When Availability Feels Scary
• 18:25 Finding Freedom And Clarity On The Other Side Of The Wave

 

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A Wiser Way To Decipher “The Ick”

Rethinking The Ick: The Secret Saboteur Of Healthy Love

Have you ever experienced what people call the ick? Where all of a sudden someone starts to really bother you, and you feel really turned off to them, and it feels hopeless, and you feel helpless, and it feels like something you just can’t get through? There is a secret of the most profound importance that is happening at that time that we are never, ever taught. It can change your future in love, like it’s changed mine, when you understand what’s really happening and what to do differently. Stay tuned to this episode of the Deeper Dating® Podcast to learn the wiser way to handle this dynamic.

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Hello everybody, and welcome to the Deeper Dating® Podcast. I’m Ken Page. I’m the author of the bestselling book, Deeper Dating, and the creator of the new app Deeper for Good, where you get to meet other single people who share your values through inspiring live online events. You’ll get to hear more about that. Today, we are going to be talking about what people call the ick, which is, I think, a profound misunderstanding of something that is a key to anybody’s intimacy journey. There’s a secret inside of the ick that is of profound importance, and in some ways it is, I believe, this ick thing, is the single greatest saboteur of healthy new love.

It’s not what you think it is. I’m going to be talking about this. First, I just want to say that if these ideas interest you and you’d like to learn more about the Deeper Dating® path to richer, deeper intimacy, just go to DeeperDatingPodcast.com, and there you can get transcripts of every episode. You can also get a free gift of a book that I have called the 5 Keys to Deeper Intimacy. You can also join my mailing list and be part of my community and hear about the app.

If you want to hear about the app or learn about it, just go to DeeperForGood.com. Let me jump in. I’m going to start by talking about my personal history a little bit and saying that what people call the ick, I had really badly. I still have remnants of it, but it kept me single for decades because I was not taught to understand it, like so many of us have not been taught to understand it. In fact, there was a 2025 study in the Journal of Personality and Individual Differences that confirmed that about 64% of people experience what we call the ick.

When you experience the ick, it's a better way to think of it as a wave—a wave of distancing. Share on X

I call it the Wave of Distancing. I’ll explain why in a few minutes, but 64% and what’s not mentioned is how often they start experiencing the ick when someone actually becomes available. Anyway, about 26% of those people end the relationship immediately, and I was one of those. I did not think it was a get-throughable thing. Another 42% ended a little bit down the road. So that’s 68%. The other 32% continue in the relationship and get past that. What I just want to mention is that so many people talk about the Ick, and the thing that kills me about it is again and again, people say, “You’re helpless, and it’s probably an intuition. So follow that trigger. Do not force yourself. It’s a real sign that this person is not right for you.”

Unconscious Defenses: How Shame And Boundaries Trigger The Wave Of Distancing

Is it true in a number of cases? Of course it is, but this is what I say, “Do not run. Learn more. If you stay a little bit longer and follow the two techniques I’m going to give you, your eyes will clear, and in the end it will probably pass, and in any case, you will have a better sense of if this person is right for you or not. I call the ick the Wave of Distancing, and it tortured me for so long. I know I’ve shared this story. This is me in the second grade, and there was this boy that I wanted to be his pal, and I worked, and I thought he was really cool, and I worked really hard to get him to notice me and want to play with me, and it worked. The kid was finally interested in playing with me and being my friend.

When that happened in second grade, I remember feeling that ick feeling inside and the sadness of “Oh, it’s that thing again. Now, I’m not going to want to play with him anymore. I’m going to be grossed out by him, and I’m going to hate myself for it, and it’s going to hurt his feelings, and I’m going to feel terrible, but this is what happens.” I remember the pain of that moment in second grade. Many years later, when it came time for romance and sexuality and love, it was the same story. There were so many components to what led to that. For me, the biggest component growing up a gay kid in a family of holocaust survivors. Being so highly sensitive, led to a huge amount of shame.

Not to mention the teasing and the insults and all of that, at school. That shame was self-hate, and that self-hate protected itself by feeling a sense of repulsion to push people away. I felt like I wasn’t worthy, so I felt that they weren’t worthy. Another piece of it, though, was not as much as the second-grade piece, but was connected to the shame. With that shame, I couldn’t speak up for myself. I couldn’t honor myself, and when we have this felt sense of not being able to honor ourselves, intimacy feels threatening, and it feels threatening in ways that aren’t conscious, like, “Oh, I feel threatened by intimacy because I feel ashamed.” It’s not like that.

 

And because my unconscious knew that my shame was not going to let me take care of myself, express myself, be myself, it created what’s called a primitive defense. A wall that would go up when someone was available. And it was so many years until I discovered that a huge part of that was all the countless ways that I doubted my impulses instead of honoring them. And my inner self protected me from intimacy because it knew that I didn’t trust myself enough to set boundaries, to speak my truth, to be my original authentic self, to live my Core Gifts in the world.

So I created a feeling of repulsion because what is repulsing? It’s a pushing away when someone became close. And the wonderful researcher Art Aaron, in a conversation with me, said something similar to me. He said that people who have shame or some kind of self-dislike are going to be much more likely to feel that kind of repulsion in distance when someone actually becomes available. So for me, I just remember that second-grade experience being replayed and replayed and replayed and the feeling of helplessness.

There was nothing I could do about this until I started learning some really important things because I studied this. I really studied it, and studying this deficit of character, of capacity was humiliating, and it was difficult, and it was shameful, but it was an act of bravery, and I’m so glad that I did it, and I talked about that bravery in the last episode, The Bravery of Acknowledging Your Patterns. But in that studying, I learned so much. I learned about things that kept me separate from deep love, and these are the things I learned. The first thing I learned is that when I experienced the ick, it was much better to think of it as a wave, what I call the Wave of Distancing.

Why? Because the ick is helpless and hopeless. A wave hits you. You’re at the beach, and you get knocked into by a wave, and it knocks you off balance, and then it passes. The truth is that if you follow the two principles that I’m going to give you, in almost all cases, the wave will significantly diminish. The Ick will significantly diminish, or, in very great likelihood, it will go away, even if it only goes away for a while. And afterwards, you will get a much clearer sense of is this person is right for you or not. I had to learn this the hard way because nobody taught it to me, because people do not talk about this. I was rendered helpless around this for decades.

Take as much distance as you need, but still find a way to enjoy the person. Share on X

I had to kind of figure it out myself because I wasn’t given the words to help me. And this is something that, in leading my many, many, many, many workshops and retreats, I have so many times asked for a show of hands for people to raise their hand if they know this experience of having someone all of a sudden start to feel available and then all of a sudden they go down in market value to you. You feel more easily disgusted or annoyed or bored, or you notice physical qualities of theirs that become unbearable, that did not bother you a week ago. These are all signs. And usually about two-thirds of the audience, just like the stats show, raise their hand that they relate to that.

So can you relate to this? How does it happen for you? Is anything that I’m saying ringing true for you? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn’t, but if it is, you have an opportunity to change your future in love around this. Now, sometimes the ick or the wave is a warning sign that this is a mismatch. And I’m gonna talk about that. Sometimes it is an instruction of what you need to do next to build intimacy with a potential partner, and that’s exciting, and sometimes it’s just a difficult speed bump that you can make pass.

Red Flags Vs. Speed Bumps: Decoding Real Mismatches In Dating

This was a revelation to me because I never knew that it passes. I ended things quickly, just like in second grade, because I felt like I am never going to get through this. I’m going to hurt this other person. I can’t bear this feeling of wanting to escape and having to stay. It felt inauthentic. And one thing I knew was that I did not want to grit my teeth and stomach the feeling of repulsion and disgust, and I think that’s valid.

I don’t think it’s helpful if you’re experiencing the wave or the ick to just feel like, “Okay, I just have to soldier through this feeling, live with it, and keep acting connected.” I think there are more nuanced ways to handle it, and I want to talk about each of those three different use cases. One is the fact that it’s really a mismatch, and it could be a mismatch in so many ways. It could be a mismatch in the way that the person isn’t kind to waitpeople, isn’t kind to you, doesn’t show up, judges your friends, is a narcissist. These are all kinds of things, or maybe it’s even something like it’s a really nice person, but they have a body smell, not even a body odor, but a body smell that you just can’t bear. It just feels wrong to your physiology and your nervous system.

 

That might not go away, and certainly if it’s those issues of character, they often don’t go away. And certainly, certainly, certainly, if it’s the person being narcissistic or the person being unkind or the person being unavailable, take that seriously. Take those warning signs really seriously.

You might be thinking now, how do I know whether or not this is a mismatch or my fear of intimacy, whether it’s a mismatch or my old patterns getting in the way? Well, the way to know this that I have found really works is to follow two principles and see what happens, and the two principles of this, do not flee, do not flee, do not flee, but take the space that you need within the relationship. Often, we never get taught this, and it’s such a shame. It’s a spasm of fear, and that spasm loosens if you don’t force yourself to have sex when you’re not ready.

You don’t force yourself to have, like, an intimate three-hour dinner if you don’t feel ready. You don’t force yourself. You back off, you lighten up, you find an activity where you can enjoy this person, because that’s what you want to do. You want to take the pressure off, and you want to enjoy them. And you want to do a few other things too, which I’ll talk about in a minute. But the main thing here is that you loosen the leash a little bit for yourself, on yourself, and you give yourself space to see the person maybe a little less frequently. Maybe to go to a comedy club.

Maybe instead of a romantic dinner that you had planned or a weekend away where you were gonna be in a hotel together, and you’re just not ready. Maybe instead you go to a comedy club, or you go to the movies, and you give yourself breathing room. This is something I wanna say. In my decades of doing this work, time and time again I’ve seen this thing that people meet each other, they live far away, they meet online, let’s say, they live far away and really far away, and they decide that they’re gonna have a date, and they’re not gonna both pay for a hotel in the middle.

If you meet someone who is good, decent, and available, you're more at risk than with an asshole because you have more to lose. Your deep psyche knows that and protects you. Share on X

One of them is gonna go to the other person’s house, and it’s only gonna be for a weekend, so it’ll be fine. Well, it’s usually not fine to have your first date be a weekend together. It’s worth it to spend the money on a hotel and have actual dates because the psyche gets more afraid, and more quickly afraid, in the beginning than the conscious mind can understand. So we allow ourselves space, we don’t flee, and we do the stuff where we can really get to enjoy this person.

What would I really enjoy doing with this person? What do I like about them? So I wouldn’t go walking with their dogs. Do I want to have an adventure with them? Do I want to? What do I want to do? I would like to do things with them that I think would be fun. So you do that, you take the pressure off, and you notice what happens. If nothing changes and that ick or wave feeling doesn’t change on one date, on two more dates, don’t torture yourself. That’s my feeling. If it diminishes and if it becomes alternating with real connectedness or enjoyment or a sense of possibility, then you know that this is the way that your nervous system is spasming, and you just allow those spasms by knowing how to ride them.

Spasms Of Fear: How To Articulate Needs When Availability Feels Scary

I remember with Greg. I remember with two people, actually, before Greg, my husband. I met someone. I really fell in love with him. I really did, and I thought, “There is no way in the world that I would have the wave again.” Nope, it’s just not gonna happen with this person. I remember that we were together in my apartment and he invited me to come sit on the couch with him. So I knew at that point that he was interested, and I had been really working toward that for a good period of time. And I remember in that moment, the wave came and I thought, “God, no, even here.” But I had tools, and I knew what to do. I knew not to force myself into anything. I knew to find that zone where I could vibe with him and enjoy him.”

I knew that I would have these hard feelings, but I was not going to judge the relationship on that spasm of fear, and that worked, and we had a relationship. With Greg, I was so certain that I would not experience the way that I even wrote about it in my journal. I said, “Okay, maybe this whole time, this whole time the wave was really telling me something because here I am with someone and I know I won’t experience the wave. Well, I did. I did. But I knew how to ride through it.

I swear to you, I would not be married in this wonderful family and married and together for 17, over 17 years. If I didn’t know this tool, I would have fled. I would have fled, and I would have felt helpless and disappointed in myself. So I’m really encouraging you to learn these tools. So another tool, in addition to don’t flee and enjoy the person and let off the pressure, and that is to think about what you want in the relationship and ask for it. And that’s a really, really important thing. And you might feel like, “I don’t have a right to ask for that. We’re in early dating.” How could I ask that this person asks me more questions? How could I ask for silence?

 

How could I ask that we don’t see that movie, but we see this movie because of the state that I’m in, the mood that I’m in? What are the parts of myself that are authentic that I’m afraid to show? So if you’re experiencing the wave and you’re with someone, great show those parts of yourself to the degree that feels comfortable and safe and won’t traumatize you. Show those parts of yourself. Ask for the things that you want to ask for. Show that vulnerability. Swing out. Because if this person makes space, I can almost guarantee you, Eros will surge, the wave will go down, and there will be a deeper connection.

So often that’s something that really works, and I’ll just give an extreme example of this. I knew someone, and she was dating another woman, and she really liked this woman, but she did not like her hair. She couldn’t take her hair. And she was like, “What do I do about this? That’s such a weird, weird thing.” Like, I can’t ask somebody on early dating to change her hair, but she decided to be bold and did. And the woman changed her hair.

It was a really, really good thing, and it got her over the hump, and they grew to a deeper connection. I’ve done things like that too. It’s a kind of weird thing, but I’ve also asked for things emotionally that were scary to ask for. But let me tell you, when you do that with someone who’s wonderful, and they make space for it, it really increases the possibility of romance. So I just want to say one other thing, which is that after decades of work, I have created an app that I have dreamed of to help people meet. And it’s called Deeper for Good™, and it’s launching really soon.

It may have launched already by the time the episode comes out. You can go to Deeper for Good™ and join our waiting list and get special benefits for being a founding member. And if you’re looking for decency and honesty and goodness, you’re in the right place. This app is unlike any other app because we have inspiring live events. And given the way this country is going, we have events to create change before the midterms, to protect the rights of vulnerable people, to support diversity, to protect our environment, to protect our constitution and our democracy.

Crossing The Gravel: Finding Freedom And Clarity On The Other Side Of The Wave

We have events for all these things, and you can join them, and you can meet other people who share your values, and after the event, freely and with peace and no pressure, get to keep connecting. So that’s DeeperForGood.com, and there’s no other app like it, and I can’t believe there’s no other app like it because meeting through shared inspiring experiences is the best way to spark love. Okay, so going back to the wave and the ick and just some last things that I want to say.

It’s so strange that we would have this spasm of fear around someone who’s nice and available in some way. And this is an image that I use to kind of explain this. If you’ve ever been in the woods and some wild bird actually gets really close to you, dive bombs into your face or toward your face, lies down on the ground right in front of you where you could almost grab it, pretending that it has a broken wing. If these things happen, that the bird is exhibiting this desperate, wild behavior, it’s to distract you from the fact that its babies are in a nest right nearby. When you have the potential of being with someone with whom you could truly be at risk, at risk how?

Not because they’re an asshole, not because they’re unavailable, but because you feel that they could be someone you could really love and trust. The risk becomes so much greater. And just like that bird, your psyche, in the presence of availability, will get really freaked out and want to protect the birds in the nest, which are your vulnerable, authentic self, and we do that by creating the wave. And the battlefield of love is strewn with corpses that never made it to real love, corpses of relationships, not corpses of people. Corpses of potential relationships that never, never made it because of the wave, and they didn’t have the tools to handle it.

When you brave asking for what you want, you will come out the other side with a sense of freedom, a sense of possibility, and a clearer sense of if this person is right for you. Share on X

In fact, if you experience the wave, you might want to consider celebrating because it really might mean that the person you met is available and decent, and that’s why they are so scary in such a different way. So the key pieces here are note character, note true red flags. Give yourself space, pull back as you need, do not suffocate yourself because Eros is a bird that lands on our shoulder and cannot stay by force. In fact, force is just a killer for Eros. So don’t force, give yourself space, enjoy the person, step back, don’t flee, and notice if feelings begin to come back.

If you do this a number of times and feelings don’t come back, well then you have your answer. If they come back and then the fear comes back, then you kind of have your answer too. The answer is there’s a real possibility here. Stay with it. And the other piece is don’t flee, don’t blame yourself or judge yourself because it’s part of the process, especially for deeply sensitive people. We get scared easier. And the other piece is to ask for the things that you want, even if they’re scary.

And if the person makes you feel safe when you do them, well, your insides will begin to relax. And that really helps as well. So I think you will find that in many cases the wave disappears, and on the other side of it lies some really potential wonderful things, including more self-love and a tool that can change your future forever in love. Thanks so much for listening, and I look forward to connecting at Deeper For Good™, at DeeperDatingPodcast.com, or on our next episode.

 

Important Links

• Deeper Dating
• Deeper for Good
• Deeper Dating Podcast
• 5 Keys to Deeper Intimacy