What’s the one skill that makes your relationships and dating life more alive, more successful, and more exciting? Find the for-real answer in this episode.

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Listen For

• 0:00 What is the “control lever” that determines the richness of your intimate life?
• 3:33 What does it mean to “swing out” and why is it an essential, albeit scary, part of deeper intimacy?
• 8:45 How do we identify and reclaim our “Core Gifts” after years of conditioning?
• 15:35 Why is the act of asking for what you want a powerful catalyst for romance and connection?
• 24:15 How can you “operationalize” your needs to ensure your partner truly hears and understands you?

 

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The Potent, Exciting, (Slightly Scary) Path To Gorgeous Intimacy

What’s the most immediate and life-changing thing that you can do to deepen and enrich your intimate life in all your relationships, including your relationship with yourself? Stay tuned to this episode of the Deeper Dating® podcast to learn more.

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Hello, everybody and welcome to the Deeper Dating podcast®. I’m Ken Page. I’m a psychotherapist, the author of the bestselling book Deeper Dating and the creator of my dream app called Deeper For Good, where single people can meet in an environment that’s respectful and kind and fun and engaging that links up with actual events about the things that you care about most. Please go to DeeperForGood.com to learn more.

And very soon now, it’s going to be in all the app stores, too. And I think it’s the app that so many people have been waiting for. And it’s been a dream of mine forever. I can’t wait to see you on there. And we have wonderful events planned. Events for people who care about changing the world. Events for people who care about personal growth. Events for people who care about intimacy, and all of those are events linked to the app. It’s very new. It’s very wonderful, and I can’t wait to see you there.

Defining The “Control Lever” Of Intimacy

You can also go to DeeperDatingPodcast.com to join my mailing list and to see transcripts of all my, something like, I don’t know, 240 episodes of this podcast. But, today, I want to talk about a way that you have your hand on the lever of how rich you want your intimate life to be. This is the lever, the control level that can really define that for you, and what is that? Well, first of all, I’ll start with the safety precautions. You can only do this with somebody who’s really safe. Someone who has decency. Someone who has character. Someone who is not going to stab you in the back. Someone who is not going to shame you or gaslight you. Someone with goodness and decency because those are the only people we want to be with anyway. And God knows where we plant our flag and build our home.

It must be with somebody like that if we want happiness. And, we want happiness. That’s the major precaution. The other major precaution is to honor your own nervous system in terms of what feels like too much because what I am going to tell you is going to scare you. It will make you sweat a little bit. It will be scary. It will make your heart race in all likelihood, and those things are fine. They are okay. We just don’t want to trigger trauma. We do not want to wildly dysregulate our nervous system. We don’t want to do more than we are ready for.

We want happiness. That is the major precaution. Share on X

What is this thing, though, that I’m talking about? It’s this. It is swinging out in terms of how much you ask for in your relationships. This is a huge, scary, gorgeous thing, and I have a lot to say about why it works, how it works, the impact that’s going to have and how you can make it come to life in your own relationships, and in your own dating life. Swinging out means that you are going to let yourself be closer to your full size, closer to your full truth-telling.

And, for most of us, we have been hurt. We’ve been punished. We’ve been taking advantage of. We’ve been gas-lit because when we’re all of ourselves, we’re a lot. We are a lot because we’re a lot. We’re human beings. We are a lot. And so, many people who can’t tolerate our a lot-ness or maybe it’s the reverse. Maybe it’s our quietness, our softness, our interiorization that they take personally, but that’s kind of like interiorization, and being an introvert. That’s a lot in its own way too, because you’re asking for a lot. You’re asking for a lot of space.

So, kind of to be you, means you’re asking a lot if you’re really being you. I just think that that’s true. So, we are conditioned not to do that. And, we are conditioned to be afraid of doing it, and then we set up these internal watchdogs where if we break the rules that we so carefully built to protect ourselves. The watchdogs come out and attack. They tell us we’re crazy. They tell us, “Who do you think you are?” They tell us, “Oh, you are going to get in such trouble,” or they create this feeling in our nervous system like you get when there’s going to be a thunderstorm.

There’s a darkness. There’s a fear. There’s a trepidation that comes up. All of these things happen when we start taking up more of our full space. So, the antidote to that is self-love. The antidote to that is learning to honor the parts of you that are bigger than you were allowed to be. These parts of you are what I call your Core Gifts. And, in all of the deep work that I’ve done with clients over the years and in my courses and my classes and everywhere. The first stage that I help people with is naming these Core Gifts, and even on the app, the Deeper For Good™ app. I actually help you begin to learn to name your Core Gifts as you write your profile.

The antidote to fear and darkness is self-love. It is learning to honor the parts of you that are bigger than you were allowed to be. Share on X

As you come to claim your Core Gifts, like for example, I am really sensitive to vibes, to energy, to a feeling in the room. And if things aren’t right with people I love, I pick it up in their voice like before they do so often, and I start feeling troubled. When there’s something not right in their voice, even if they’re not noticing it, I start feeling troubled. What did I do with this my whole life? I ate it. I swallowed it because I thought that it was just mine to swallow. I didn’t think it was something you could say, and then, God knows, being a gay boy who was born in 1956, swallow, swallow, swallow all of these parts of myself. Be someone different. Defend myself. Build a wall of shame that will protect me from being too real.

These are all things that I had to unlearn. And I had to unlearn what was the best and most beautiful way that I unlearned this? Well, I had a therapist. Her name was Shirley Elias. I worked with her for thirteen years. And this beautiful work that I did with her helped me reclaim parts of myself that I just had such shame over. Qualities of goodness, qualities of tenderness and qualities of joy. I don’t know what. It’s just kind of the deeper inner petals of my being. Like, you know, when you look at a flower and when you get close to the center, the petals are very tender. They’re soft. They’re beautiful but they’re tender. They bruise easily.

Reclaiming Your Core Gifts And Inner Self

Well, those were the parts of myself that I was trained to be mortified by. What I learned with Shirley was that these were treasures. I guess it’s not like I learned conceptually that they were treasures. I just got reacquainted with them. And when you get reacquainted with these parts of yourself, some deep and vulnerable part of you remembers how much you loved them when you were little. So, this journey of reclaiming the parts of yourself that the world taught you asked too much, demanded too much, were too much or weren’t enough. The reclaiming of that is the first step.

When you get reacquainted with these parts of yourself, some deep and vulnerable part of you remembers how much you loved them when you were little. Share on X

Like, what are those things that you would say if you spoke your truth? I use my husband, Greg, all the time for this. I’ll tell you what he says to me that helps me so much. Again and again, I say, “I want to say that, dah, dah, dah. Is it too much?” And, invariably, he will either say, “That was very strong,” which means that there was an anger in it or a demand in it that I might want to reconsider. Or he’ll say, “Well, yeah. You got to say it because it’s you,” and always at the bottom when I can do it kindly. His advice is always, “Well, you got to do it because it’s you,” and I love that advice.

Hearing that advice has helped me speak my truths in the world, in my business life, in my interactions much more directly than I ever, ever, ever thought I was allowed to do but also with kindness. It is shocking, and has been shocking to me how well that has worked in my business life. But it was earlier so shocking to me to find out that I could do that in my intimacy life. The big thing that I thought I had to hide was my softness. Guys are not soft. Soft is not sexy. Soft is embarrassing, but softness of spirit is a real part of who I am. I’m also pretty spicy, but the softness is a real part of who I am. And, until I learned to treasure that, I was attracted to guys who didn’t have that softness. They were cocky. They were arrogant and they didn’t hold that quality with kindness.

 

But as I learned to do it, I chose differently in my love life. I chose differently in my friendship life. I got wildly, wildly careful with these soul qualities and who I would share them with. Those are the places, if you take a minute, to just think now. What are the qualities in you that are like you? That you were kind of acculturated out of? That you were trained out of. Like, if you were going to be speaking your truth more in the world, what are the kinds of things that you would say? What are the kind of things that you would ask for?

We must know what we would ask for if we felt we were allowed to, and then normalize that. Whether or not we directly ask, those two steps of thinking, “What would I say? What would I ask for if I asked for what I really wanted? In sex, what would I ask for in sex if I asked for what I really wanted? With X person, what would I ask for? The minute you start asking this question, that in itself is beginning to normalize what you want. There is something so profoundly healing about identifying what you would ask for.

Take a moment right now, and think about somebody in your life where you’re not being fully you or there’s some kind of disruption of energy that might feel subtle. I would say do not choose for this exercise now, a really big heavy one. But one where there’s some kind of disruption of energy that you feel.

What would you say to this person if you were going to fully ask for what you want? What would be your specific instructions?

There is something so profoundly healing about identifying what you would ask for. Share on X

And if you’re starting to think, A) I can’t ask for that because it’s too much. It’s probably so much less close to too much than you think. B) You might think it’s too much for this person. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn’t. And, if it is, that is really something to take into account. Absolutely, but I think we short change ourselves all the time, especially if we can do it with kindness. There are so many things that I say in my marriage that I would have been mortified to ever say –  how I need Greg’s attention, how I want to be held, how I want to be listened to, how I want to take a walk, and what I want to do. So many things.

And when you do these things with someone who cares, A) They maybe start doing it more too. Which is fabulous, because that stretches you probably in ways you need to be stretched just like you asking them. It stretches them in ways they probably could use to be stretched. But also, when you do this, when you’re with someone and you think, “What would I really ask for?” And then, you do it without blame, without judgment but that’s really something to watch.

Because if you’re asking in a passive aggressive way because it’s kind of like, “Asshole, did you not know this?” It leaks. Your resentment leaks and it pollutes the water. It clouds the water. So, we need to be able to purely fully ask for what we want. Explain why it matters and explain the happiness that it would give us, and what it would mean to us to get it. And maybe explain what it feels like to our nervous system and our heart when we don’t get it.

Why Vulnerability And “Asking” Breed Romance

Now, when you do this with someone who is a good person, even if they don’t get it, even if they’re triggered by it, even if it brings up memories of past fights. Some part of them will begin to hear it, and they will not gaslight you. They will not become abusive and over time, they will begin to listen and to hear it. Maybe they’ll hear it right away, but when you start asking for the scary things, it’s like stepping over a ledge or into a chasm. Well, let’s say not a chasm. Let’s say there’s like a gap in the rocks. It’s a gap where you have to jump, so it’s scary but you do it.

When you do that, if you are met with being heard, a bunch of things happen. One thing that happens is the part of you that you considered shadow previously becomes animated. It becomes alive. It feels like, “Oh, damn. I think I deserve to exist. I think there’s a place for me in this world.” We begin, these parts of us that we had to suppress, begin to feel that way, which is fabulous. And then, what goes with that is, there is value to this. And, actually that value, kind of maybe speaks to my mission and who I am and what I’m meant to do and how I experience intimacy.

These are fabulous things. The other person gives you that gift of taking a part of you that was like, I don’t know. Maybe semi-comatose. Sleeping beauty-ish. Kissing it and bringing it to life. This is the gift of swinging out in terms of what you ask for in a relationship. The other thing that happens is, you feel closer to that person when they do that. You really do, and there’s research on how that particular fear, when you’re met in a good way, actually breeds Eros, breeds romance, breeds aliveness. That little bit of fear, as long as it is held safely, actually sparks sexuality, intimacy, romance, all these fabulous things.

 

But I want to say this is not easy. Actually, it’s existential. It’s a coming out. It is truly coming out. As a gay man, I know what coming out is like and how hard and how scary and how powerful that is. Well, you, gay, straight, anything get to come out in this purely existential way – any day, every day by swinging out in terms of what you asked for, including what you asked for of yourself. Like, for example, it’s the middle of the day. You got work to do and your body, your being is saying, “I want to rest. I’m getting stressed.” This is me. This is my story.

I’m getting hyper. I can feel myself getting dysregulated and some part of me just wants to push through and keep going like, “Ken, you are like such a wuss. No, it’s a work day. You keep working. You have a big project here.” And another part of me might say, “Yeah, I’d like an effing break right now. I really would. I like to take a nap. I’d like to go for a walk. I’d like to watch a little bit of stupid TV.” And, if I give that to myself, I’m being kinder to myself. My inner environment feels that. Then there’s the juicy stuff too, like, I’m on the edge of deep spiritual experience and I have to slow down to enjoy it.

I’m feeling something and I don’t know what it is and I’m in conversation with someone. I have to say, “Can I just have a minute? I’m thinking about something. I’m feeling something,” and I don’t know what it is, or “Can we hold hands?” This is really a big one. In running my intensives, this is something I saw again and again. The single folks had their work to do of this very same thing because think about it. You get to do this on a date and this will filter out the right people and filter in the right people so much more quickly.

One of my intensive members said this great thing that I quote a lot, which is, “Don’t shelve your asks in the beginning.” Now, obviously you’re not going to do asks that are way inappropriate, but yeah, you could do asks that really feel unorthodox or a little scary. You can test the waters. You can dip your toe in with someone and watch how they respond. And if they respond in a good way, you will like that and you will very possibly like them more.

Asking for scary things is like stepping over a ledge. It's a gap where you have to jump; it's scary but you do it. Share on X

In my intensives, that’s what single people maybe would work on. They would work on their asks. In dating, in sharing who they really are, people who were in the intensives in relationships invariably had the same challenge almost always. And the challenge was sharing the things that weren’t working right. A lot of these people were in my intensive because they weren’t sure about the relationship and they wanted to check or test it or some people entered into new relationships during the intensive and some things didn’t feel right.

Well, we would spend a bunch of time having them identify what their ask would be. And then, helping them honor the worthiness and validity of these asks. Believe me, we need help in doing that. It’s a kind of liberation. We would do that first and then, the person will be like, “Okay. I get it. This is what I need to ask for.” I see why it makes sense. I see why it connects to my Core Gifts. I get it. I get it. I get it. And then, they couldn’t do it. And then the next week would pass and they weren’t able to do it. And the next week would pass and they weren’t able to do it. Maybe two months would pass with support before they were able to do it. That’s how hard it can be sometimes in a relationship.

That’s why we like dip our toe in, and we do a little by little and when we get met with being heard, which I’ll say in a minute some of the instructions to optimize the possibility of that occurring. When that happens, little by little, we trust more and more that we can share these parts of ourselves. It ain’t easy but that’s kind of the glory of the intimacy journey. Anyway, so, a month would pass, two months would pass, and again and again, I saw this. The person would finally, finally do it. It’s so scary. They would do it. And I have to tell you, I can’t think of a single incident in the years that I ran intensives, where their request was not met with something that brought them closer to their partner.

Was it enough? Well, that may be dependent. Was it liberating for them to do it? At least in the cases that I was involved in because these people were with people who are decent people and not abusive. Again and again, it was a revelation to them. First, the pre-revelation was the worth of their want. The next revelation was that they could do it, and the next revelation was that doing it was met with understanding, which opened their heart to this person and their humanity. And the ways that they might be limited but the ways that they are beautiful as well.

Steps To Optimize Your Intimacy Requests

And, invariably, I did witness people getting closer to their partner at least at that time because this is a magic fuel for intimacy. And then, we invite our partner to do that as well. The last thing that I want to say before we close is, how do you optimize that experience? Well, the first step is to get help from other people so that you don’t feel guilty, ashamed. If you’re feeling guilty and ashamed, you will feel resentful.

Like, if you’re feeling guilty and ashamed about the validity of your wants, chances are really big that you’re going to be annoyed at your partner that they haven’t figured it out already that this is what you want. Because your self-judgment reflects outward toward them and inward toward you. It’s a not very happy double-edged sword. That’s one thing that’s going to happen if you don’t honor what the want is. The first step is naming the want. The second step is, either on your own and, in my book Deeper Dating, I actually give instructions on how to do this.

But the thing that you need to do is to say, “It’s valid that I feel this way because……..” That’s one thing that you kind of fill in the blanks. Another thing is, “This relates to my Core Gifts and my mission and my greatest gifts in the world in this way.” And you could say, “This is something where I’ve been hurt because people didn’t have the spaciousness to treasure this part of me.” These are things you can say to help yourself begin to make space for your want. My advice is, if you want to say a lot of time, don’t do it on your own. Yet do it on your own, fine but do it with a friend.

Do it with a friend who sees that quality and appreciates it. I promise you it will feel so much better. It will be so much more fun. It will bring you closer to that person. That’s a swing out ask right there, but to have them help you validate this and then, you want to present it as an ask. It is generous to make an ask. Making a demand, that’s not so generous. Sometimes, we have to set a limit. That’s a different kind of thing, but asking and letting the person know how good it would feel if you got it, what it means to you, given your personal history to be able to get that.

Don't shelve your asks in the beginning. Share on X

What it means to you in your personal history. The pain of not having gotten it, what that feels like and what you do to yourself with that and then, you make the ask. And, because that ask might be a totally foreign language to your partner, you operationalize it. You help them with it. You tell them what it would look like and how they would do it in a very concrete way, so that they can operationalize it. Because chances are, they want to be a good friend. They want to be a good sibling. They want to be a good partner, but you’re asking them to speak a different language, maybe, than they have ever learned.

It’s the language of you. Probably the language of them too, but they haven’t learned that yet, so you do it with care. The act of asking is an act of generosity. You do it that way. You operationalize it. You do not, when you’re telling them about how it feels when that’s not met, you don’t go through a litany of how they have not met it. No, you don’t want to do that at all. You want to share about the pain that you feel in your heart, what you experience in yourself without referring to how they have done this to you. And then you give them space to hear you.

If it’s too difficult to have those conversations, I recommend a few different things. I recommend the Gottman’s book, John and Julie Gottman, called Fight Right. I also recommend Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt home kit for couples called Safe Conversations that teaches couples how to do this. Those are two recommendations that I want to make. But, what I want to say is, here’s a key that I can place in the palm of your hand and it is your key.

It is a key to scary, juicy, beautiful, deeper intimacy, and it’s a key to your own inner sanctum of who you are. That key is understanding what you want, honoring what you want, swinging out in terms of asking for what you want and then giving the same to your partner.

Thank you so much for listening. Try this experiment and let me know how it goes. And I will see you on our beautiful, respect based app called Deeper For Good™. Launching probably by the time this episode airs. DeeperForGood.com or in the App Store, Google and Apple, etc. Thank you all.

 

Important Links

• Deeper Dating
• Deeper For Good
• Fight Right
• How to Talk with Anyone about Anything: The Practice of Safe Conversations